SpoilerTV`s Weekly Round Table: 55th Edition By Marko Pekic (August 6, 2018, 8:45 pm)
Last Man Standing, SpoilerTV Article, The Originals, American Crime Story, Feud, Timeless
Hello and Welcome to a new edition of your favorite Round Table at SpoilerTV! SpoilerTV members featured in this issue are Beth (BW), Yon (SJ), Sam (SD), Ellys (EC), Jamie (JC), mads (MD), Claire (CS), Bex (BX) & Lisa (LM) You just have to sit back enjoy the read and join the discussion in the comment section down below.
1. Timeless stuff cant apparently get truly get canned. NBCs revives Timeless for the 2nd time. Do you think that the cast/crew indicating that viewership matters is fair? Or should they just drop it already?
BW: This movie is a wonderful gift that I am pleased we are getting. Having said that, I think it is dangerous for the cast and crew to insinuate that viewership may help get another renewal. They should be realistic with the fans and tell them this will have finality and to embrace that this is it.
SJ: I want to be respectful since I know a lot of people do actually like the show, but this wrap-up movie and all the hints that people tuning in will be enough to get a 3rd season? It's too much for me. The show was lucky as it was to get a 2nd season. The showrunner made the ludicrous decision whilst knowing they were fortunate, to leave the 2nd season on a cliffhanger and now instead of everyone being happy they've got a chance to wrap things up properly, they're just hyping the fans?! It's just ridiculous. Many shows don't get as many chances as Timeless has had, and the cast + crew need to join forces with the fans to approach this wrap-up movie as exactly what it is, a wrap-up and stop all this renew hashtag nonsense.
SD: I really believe the Timeless crew wants to keep the show going and that's why they keep pushing for viewership, even knowing this upcoming movie is a wrap-up. I can understand that because I'm sure it's about helping to keep jobs for the cast and crew, but Timeless has never been a rating hit and I highly, highly doubt that's going to change with this movie. While I know why they want to do it, I don't see the point of it because their campaigning has never worked before. The only reason they got a second season wasn't that of viewership but because Sony was willing to make a deal that was financially viable for NBC. They couldn't make that same deal for a season two, although somehow they got a movie pushed through. I think the cast/crew need to focus their attention on what they're going to do post-Timeless instead of putting out worthless breadcrumbs for viewers to keep it going.
EC: In case "two-part series finale" doesn't spell it out clearly enough, the showrunners' own statement " “We’re thrilled to take the Lifeboat out for one last spin and bring closure to our story" should absolutely be accepted at face value. A second season was an unexpected gift, and its time slot wasn't responsible for its demise. Delayed viewing numbers weren't there either. Do I wish that the writers hadn't been so cocky and left so many loose ends? Absolutely. But this finale movie is an extremely rare blessing that I for one am grateful for and will happily accept as the end of the series.
JC: I'm very glad that Timeless will get a movie to wrap things up. I hate it when shows get the end on a cliffhanger. I actually think there are a few more shows that deserve a wrap-up movie. However, if the writers use this as a ploy to get the third season rather than to wrap this up, they should be prepared for the hell the internet will unleash on them. They already got tons of backlash when they ended season 2 on a cliffhanger despite the terrible odds of getting renewed. Give us a proper ending.
CS: I am a devoted viewer of Timeless and I’m happy that we’ll have an ending. But I’m ready for it to be over. NBC treats Timeless like that boyfriend you had back in high school who would break up with you one minute only to call you the next week then repeat the whole process through your entire senior year, ugh! And the ratings were just never there so it was unsustainable. But it’s a terrific show and like another great show that was canceled before its time by NBC (Freaks & Geeks) back in 2000, Timeless’s demise will be a thorn in the network’s side for a long time. Also, hope the showrunners are kind to the fans, guess they’ve been stringing us along as much as NBC has...
BX: Timeless may have never found the viewership numbers it needed, partly due to being a family-friendly show in a family-unfriendly time slot, but it has always been beloved by critics and NBC clearly knows this. Right from the pilot, Timeless has been a well-written, diverse show introducing people to historical figures and educating us. But it's also always been a sci-fi show the entire family can enjoy unfortunately dumped in a 10pm slot. Perhaps if NBC airs the 2-hour movie in an earlier timeslot in Dec it could pick up enough new viewers to be shopped by Sony and live again on another network. It seems NBC will drop it for good after this, but as a fan of the kind of television Timeless is I would love to see it continue elsewhere should it have the chance. Otherwise, I'm just thrilled the fans are getting this series wrap-up and if this movie is the end of it for good, I'm so grateful to NBC and Sony for making it happen. NBC could have never uncancelled it back in May 2017. Every episode since then has been an absolute gift.
LM: I think that if the numbers really are good, it's not misleading. It's not like other channels weren't sniffing around. The show is fun and it has a great relationship with the fans. It also serves an important purpose in informing people about history - important moments and figures in history. I'm thrilled to get the movie, and I'd love to see more episodes.
2. While Timeless can`t die, Ryan Murphy projects in FXs pipeline are dying away. Feud`s second season centering around Princess Diana and Prince Charles got scrapped while ACS Katrina continuously gets pushed back. How long will Murphy sit on two chairs and how disappointing is that all the hype about Feud 2 just vanished now?
BW: This to me is a classic example of why you don't announce projects that far in advance. There are so many moving pieces and when you are basing things off of actual events, you should always remain tight-lipped on what is coming down the line. The Royal Family and their drama are hot once again and I think it was wise to scrap this all together because honestly, the more I thought about it, it seems opportunistic to rehash something like that. The Katrina story never sat right with me because even all these years later, it affects people and they probably don't want those wounds reopened for the sake of award grabs and drama.
SJ: I've never really watched any of Ryan Murphy's shows but I do agree with the sentiment that these projects getting dropped etc, is the harsh reality of the difference between being in development and actually being ordered. The Charles and Princess Diana series should've never been something considered in the first place, given that she is deceased, it would've been hard to do any series respectfully and thanks to the tabloids + many documentaries & films over the years we already know the sordid details that we didn't really have a right to know. I can't even begin to imagine how someone like Greg Berlanti balances all of the different shows & movies he has spread across different Networks and platforms, let alone how Ryan does it. We're also living in the era of peak TV and have sooooo many shows to choose from, that stuff being stuck in development hell isn't surprising. Networks and streamers have to be smart with what it is they're ordering, and it's better to go back to the drawing board than put something on the air that you know isn't good.
SD: It sounds to me like Ryan Murphy is putting his focus onto his upcoming Netflix projects now, so his Fox stuff outside of the AHS staple are getting pushed to the backburner, which I don't mind. I wasn't looking forward to a Royal Family season, especially when we have The Crown. I think the deeper he gets into his new projects, the more previous projects will get dropped.
EC: I for one never get hyped for a Ryan Murphy series, as nothing has quite lived up to the first season of ACS, and a general sense of ennui blanketed the first season of Feud and the most recent AHS entries. That being said, there's always something intriguing about his ideas, plus the rumored amazing casting for Feud season 2 especially. But if Netflix gave me a $300,000,000 deal....my focus would be on making new content for them too.
MD: It seems to me like Ryan Murphy is focused more on his Netflix projects now and thus his FX projects are falling by the wayside. That said, I can't see them scrapping Katrina altogether because I think they shot the season already? AHS just got renewed for a tenth season so I wouldn't say he's running out of steam. Feud never got the same numbers ratings-wise as his other shows so I would say that factored into the equation. Pose is also still performing well so I think it may be less about him losing his luster and more about that specific project not panning out the way it was anticipated. In my opinion, a show about Feuds was never going to have a long life, to begin with. I think maybe if the seasons were much shorter or perhaps every episode was self-contained it would have had a longer lifespan but even the first season felt stretched very thin for material. How much can you really stretch out a fight?
CS: I was very disappointed to hear that the entire original cast was not returning to Last Man Standing; the younger daughters were great in their roles and now I don’t hold out much hope for this revival. But maybe they’ll recast and all will go well? I, unfortunately, don’t think that tired tv tropes will ever be vanquished; that would require original thought. And with the deluge of reboots, there doesn’t seem to be one original thought in Hollywood. Also, this trope in LMS sounds questionable at best. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see...
LM: Really disappointed not to see that season of Feud and I've really been wanting to see Katrina. Murphy is wearing too many hats for too many people though. I don't think even he can keep doing justice to that many projects.
3. The Originals aired its series finale this week and there once again was a major uproar from fans, as some shipper dreams weren't truly fulfilled. How important is as for a series finale to provide happy endings in general? And how relatable are they when it is about such a destructive family story like The Originals?
BW: I have so much to say on this one. Firstly, this was a show about an ancient family with so much baggage it could fill several trucks, airplanes, and warehouses. I love the Mikaelsons so much and rooted for them even though they were murderers. This story was never built for Klaus and Elijah to walk off into the sunset with their arms draped around the ones they loved in my opinion. In reality, I got the endgame I wanted, which was Elijah and Klaus going out together. We have seen how they function with the other one gone, and even then they knew the other was still alive. Imagine Elijah with all that guilt and anguish having to go on without his little brother. Is it co-dependant and somewhat toxic? Sure, but that is just who he was and what they built him for. This was the merciful thing to do for the character after everything he did and had done to him in this show. The only x-factor to me is leaving Hope parentless, in that regard I wish that Klaus could have lived for her. As for shipping, I loved Hayley and Elijah and their story, am I mad we didn't see them reunited? Honestly no because it doesn't take away how I felt about the two of them together and I am not the author of this story so I am entitled to exactly zero. In short, I get why some are mad, but saying they were duped and that they were owed a happy ending just doesn't sit right with me when you consider the story you were watching.
SJ: I think it's more important for finales to be faithful closure to the show than to give a happy ending. I can look back on shows like Burn Notice which ended with the main character sacrificing themselves, my favs faking their deaths to start a new life off the grid and be satisfied because that was the best ending that could be given. And I can look at a show like Banshee which for all accounts had a terrible final season which we don't speak of, but the finale was still fitting. I never really got into The Originals, but I think anyone expecting a fluffy, happily ever after ending wasn't paying attention to the show they were watching. Sure most people watched for the ships and Julie did pander to them, but she's also a writer who has an extremely warped sense of what she calls a happy ending and I completely respect that. Given the dysfunction rooted in the Mikealson's from the very beginning, having everyone survive, live their wonderful lives for eternity etc? It wouldn't have in any shape or form been realistic. OK the plans for the finale might've been changed a little bit by the spin-off news, but I still think when you get into shows from particular showrunners, you need to prepare yourself for not getting the idolized ending you as a fan think the characters deserve and are instead going to get a conclusion to the tragedy that the writer knows is best for the characters.
SD: I never watched The Originals so I can't speak to how faithful their finale was to the show as a whole, but I believe shows have an obligation to their shows to have a fulfilling ending, whatever it is that rings true to the show. It doesn't necessarily have to be happy. It's really more about closure to the characters and their storylines.
EC: Happy endings are something I wanted every book and show to have when I was younger, but what has grown on me is that sometimes an emotionally satisfying ending is to be preferred. There's something rose-colored about everyone getting a perfect happily ever after. But it can feel fake and unearned. For the Originals, we're talking about characters who both suffered and inflicted centuries of misery. And yet they were allowed to find redemption and to find peace, which is much more valuable than getting to play house with their soulmate. I can understand people being dismayed by that: maybe they haven't seen enough of the darker side of life to appreciate it, or maybe they've seen too much and don't want TV to reflect reality like that. But it's still a valid ending to a show, one that was built up properly in the writing over the years.
JC: I've already said a lot about this in my review so I'll keep this short. Did anyone actually think this show would have a happy ending? It was always going to end with death. These are characters that are incapable of riding off into the sunset because they're happiness rarely lasts long. As for what the shippers want (sigh) you're never going to please everyone. The only ship related issue that was brought up that I can understand is the Haylijah dance that didn't happen because there were very strong hints earlier in the season. Then again, I can't of like the end that they went with so...
MD: I never expected The Original's to have a true "happily ever after" for the entire family but honestly what we got was pretty damn close. I know Klaus was on his path to redemption but given the number of atrocities and bloodshed committed across his lifetime, I think in death he could finally atone. I am not a fan of writers caping to their fans when it comes to ships or plotlines. I don't think it ever results in a good ending. Writers should tell the story that is best suited to the plot and character development and while Klaroline was sweet in the moments they had in season five, them running off together was never going to be a realistic ending. That said, I do think fans have a right to be pissed about the show as a whole. The Vampire Diaries had a reputation for killing women and non-white characters and I feel as if The Originals took that to a whole new low. Murdering every leading female character in the show apart from Rebekah? Killing off a beloved gay character in the final stretch of episodes? Plec doesn't seem to learn from her mistakes. I can't blame people for being mad at Hayley or Josh's treatment, hell I'm still mad myself. But when it comes to the ending itself, not taking into account all of that, I would say the Mikaelson's got the happiest ending they could have. Klaus and Elijah dying felt very right, everything came full circle given their initial plot, way back in season two of TVD, was about Elijah killing Klaus. So there is a great symmetry to them dying at the end of their journey on their own terms and I can appreciate that. Not to mention that Freya, Keelin, Marcel, Rebekah, Vincent, Kol, and presumably, Davina, all got a very happy ending. Some for whom it was long overdue (Rebekah is finally going to be happy I hope).
BX: I don't think happy endings are necessary, but when viewers invest in these characters and
storylines then certainly resolutions are important. These aren't always positive. If a ship is written from the beginning as endgame, if it becomes the main ship, and viewers become invested, then there is an expectation that it will have a positive outcome in a series finale. But there needs to be an understanding in the audience that the writers may have had a totally different outcome planned from the start and even if the outcome is not positive if the story flows organically towards a natural ending, the process can be respected. Even if we don't fully agree with the outcome.
LM: No series "owes" anyone anything. It's the writers' story to tell. Anything else can go in fanfiction (and there's NOTHING wrong with that!)
4. With the lack of Original cast member returning to Last Man Standing, the writers intend to include a Chinese exchange student? How long will we be treated with these stereotypical stories? Isn`t it time for writing to grow out of these tropes?
BW: I have caught a few episodes here and there and I remember one where they had a housekeeper and they played into every trope which was cringeworthy and made me never want to catch up on this show. I don't hold much confidence they will resist the urge to make him or her the butt of a joke or two, which is not okay. It is way past time to stop utilizing characters like this as a way to set off the laugh track.
SJ: We went wayyyyyy past growing out of these tropes eons ago. It's just lazy writing and an insulting attempt at diversity and showing that you're 'woke' whilst being so far away from it you can't even see the word. I'm expecting jokes on the way the Chinese exchange student talks, mocking their culture, probably accusing them of being a terrorist or keeping the family pets away from them, with the characters, in the end, realizing their judgment is wrong but it's ok! Because the Chinese student has forgiven them and actually joined in with it. Last Man Standing is one of those comedies that should never have been revived in the first place, given it's not actually funny, and this is Fox just desperately trying to claw onto its conservative viewership whilst getting rid of shows that are actually progressive in the process. But speaking more generally, typecasting and stereotypical jokes is something that is ingrained in American comedies and absolutely sucks. Given where society is currently sitting, instead of comedies furthering harmful stereotypes, they should be working to educate viewers in a way that doesn't feel preachy, like Speechless do.
SD: I've never seen Last Man Standing but I know for sitcoms, in general, they tend to go for stereotypical characters that they think will get the biggest laughs from the general audience, especially a cookie-cutter 8 PM network show like Last Man Standing. I think diversity and sensitivity to it have become a bigger factor in shows like this, but a lot of times it doesn't come off well. I don't know how Last Man Standing will do it, but I can only hope they'll stay away from obvious punch line jokes and take a new character seriously.
CS: I was very disappointed to hear that the entire original cast was not returning to Last Man Standing; the younger daughters were great in their roles and now I don’t hold out much hope for this revival. But maybe they’ll recast and all will go well? I , unfortunately, don’t think that tired tv tropes will ever be vanquished; that would require original thought. And with the deluge of reboots, there doesn’t seem to be one original thought in Hollywood. Also, this trope in LMS sounds questionable at best. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see...
LM: It's definitely time to move off of racist stereotypes. Full Stop. This shouldn't even BE a discussion that we have to have. But it's a great question for us to shine a light on.
That is a wrap guys! Ur turn now, come and join the discussion down below. Till next week. . .